Leovaunt Game Design

Click here to edit subtitle

Forums

Post Reply
Forum Home > General Discussion > The Big Update is here! Thoughts?

Leovaunt
Site Owner
Posts: 219

Big changes to how the game is played have arrived? How do you feel about the simplified morale system and use morale levels as hero points? What about a streamlined crippling wounds table that applies to everyone? Vehicle combat speed and cruising speed? Ghosts now have starting choices? Psi level removed from resolve and telepathic attacks? Boosted psionic powers now deal wounds to the caster? Everything else?


Discuss!

--

~Leovaunt

July 20, 2017 at 8:14 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Nuzak
Member
Posts: 6

Since you mentioned ghosts, I was wondering if there are going to be a “memory wipe” option instead of neural implants, since that’s how the Dominion controlled its ghosts.

July 25, 2017 at 2:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Leovaunt
Site Owner
Posts: 219

Hey, welcome!


That's a great point. I believe the old Confederacy and Dominion used a combination of neural implants in addition to mind wipes. I can see about introducing that as an options for terran ghosts. Also, Xhupi is going to be working on a ton of options for terran ghosts and specters in the Advanced Terran Training Manual. If I don't get around to it soon, I know he is taking suggestions on content to add for ghost characters. 


If you want to do the no-implant option, and do memory wipes instead, that should be fine for representing the post-End War Dominion. Constant mind wipes help balance out the extreme power that ghosts possess. We'll try to put in specific rules for it coming up!


--

~Leovaunt

July 25, 2017 at 3:14 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Nuzak
Member
Posts: 6

Now that the forum will finally let me answer…

Wow that was fast and sounds very promising. Now I just have to find out how to make a character that is slowly turning into a broodmother. 

July 25, 2017 at 4:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Leovaunt
Site Owner
Posts: 219

We are actually going to do rules for playing as broodmothers eventually. But that is way down the road. Next up for Starcraft is going to be a Bonus Races Guide, with updated rules for playing as Tal'darim and Purifier protoss, protoss with severed nerve cords, and Primal Zerg.

--

~Leovaunt

July 25, 2017 at 5:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Nuzak
Member
Posts: 6

Sweet, and I even found a way to (almost) do it as an Infested terran

July 25, 2017 at 5:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Nuzak
Member
Posts: 6

Now that i have read the rules for mind wipe, i hope its going to be the advanced version. Otherwise a ghost would never get any xp.

July 28, 2017 at 5:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Leovaunt
Site Owner
Posts: 219

It's a tricky issue. We are looking at ways to do ghosts authentically without them simply invalidating other terran characters. How do you introduce a ghost that doesn't just invalidate the rest of the players, especially other psychics that aren't ghosts? The neural implant system was introduced, and was fluffy, but has been widely unpopular with players. Current mind wipe rules have some exp gain restrictions.

What are the solutions? Thoughts?

--

~Leovaunt

July 29, 2017 at 5:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

xhupi
Moderator
Posts: 42

Yeah, its gonna be a bit until I get to that section of the ATTM [group identities has gotten much larger than original thought], but for right now you might consider this alternative:

Ghosts (and other resocs that get mind-wiped frequently) can still learn from their experiences, but only so far as learned behaviours.  

  • agents that are wiped after every mission do not gain any xp rewards for missions, and only half xp for combat and skill encounters [trust and behaviour equivalent to Ghosts with vassal-pattern inhibitors]
  • agents that are wiped regularly (period of 3-12 months) gain half xp from all sources [equivalent to ghosts with Operative-pattern inhibitors]
  • agents that are memory wiped only on signs of deviance gain 3/4 xp from all sources [equivalent to ghosts with agent-pattern inhibitors]
This represents that these characters have trouble fully learning from their experiences, but their overall instincts, reflexes, and skill is still enhancing.  Having a full ghosts in a party starting out will have a tremendous gear advantage, but their frequent mind-wipes during the campaign explain why they arent learning as fast.  This is a hefty restriction but the GM should enforce this at least until the rest of the party starts approaching gear parity, IOW the ghost should be getting regular mind-wipes until then at least.  The ghost character will always remain behind in experience but the power of the background helps to mitigate that loss.  If at a later point the ghost has remained free from mind-wiping for some time you can have the players pay to attempt memory restoration therapy, attempt terrazine "therapy", or perhaps some even more esoteric quests to get the ghost back their memories at least from joining the group onwards (bringing their level closer to the rest of the group).  

All of that is just temporary fixes, but that might work for your campaign, for now at least.
July 29, 2017 at 6:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Nuzak
Member
Posts: 6

Well in my experience (hah) it’s never a good idea to limited the xp of one character and it doesn’t really solve the problem with the ghost being front loaded with gear. An idea for the mind wipe option could be this:


After every mission the ghost is subjected to advanced mind wipe, but must start play as a member of a Dominion task force.


A Dominion task force would be the group the player start play in, as well as the other players. As part of this task force the ghost would gain its gear, and other players that are not ghost would gain some sort of gear package and there should properly be multiple packages to choose from.


This would solve the problem with the ghost being front loaded with gear, but the power level of the party would now be significantly higher since everybody now have much better gear then normal for level 1 characters. But this is not too bad of a problem, since the gm just have to make the encounters a little harder.


Another option could simply be to limit the mind wipe option to a level, where the rest of the party have similar gear or something like that.


As for the neural implant option maybe there should be some guide lines to how and when a ghost could get a better implant.


July 30, 2017 at 12:14 PM Flag Quote & Reply

xhupi
Moderator
Posts: 42

Xp limiting is definitely a wierd place to go, however the suggestion was in place of complete xp loss every time they get wiped for characters who regularly undergo the process.  Active duty ghosts are always going to be a very odd character in a party, particularly in low-level parties -- another option for these characters is that the ghosts handlers want them to continue to improve, and utilize the mind-wiping that keeps experience gain from the core rulebook.  That way the ghost continues to gain xp and retains parity with the party.  However without the drawback, I would say that such a character shouldn't gain the full set of ghost gear, and would start with rogue ghost starting gear -- full ghosts operatives are honestly a bit hard to justify at level one anyway, these would instead be trained psionic operatives working their way towards being full ghosts.


The idea of a task force giving gear to the party is a big part of what is coming out with group identities -- however there's an even simpler fix: start at a higher level.  Honestly if your party is so good that they warrant getting expensive gear as part of the task force, just start them at a higher level, their fluff suggests that they are more powerful than just a bunch of novices anyway.  Level one characters are fairly... humble -- by design.  Then your ghost can follow the rogue ghost build in the core rulebook and just buys the gear with their starting money.  The rest of your party will also have the additional gear and everyone matches -- the ghost then just has the mind-wipes as a roleplaying element.


In any case, I'd say that a ghost that doesn't have a neural inhibitor is at a strong advantage (they still get mind-wipes on top of the inhibitor), and thus shouldn't have access to starting ghost gear.  As for upgrading the neural inhibitor, since they currently do not have a price value, just have it be a different kind of reward for the players.  Once the higher-ups trust the ghost more, or feel the inhibitor is impairing the agent too much, have them upgrade to a less-restrictive chip -- you could tie this to the party's missions, level, or even the ghosts psi-level.  There will be more on inhibitors in ATTM with the expanded cybernetics, but for right now a quest reward could work.  


But it is important to realize that dropping in one of the most highly equiped, terrifying killers in the sector into a party of comparatively mild characters will always be wierd -- the group and the GM should know that going into it.  It is an option, but it may not be for every group.  Ghosts have captured people's imagination for almost 20 years now -- they have an odd dynamic with other terrans, and the system has a basic setup for that.  However there has been a lot of demand for a more nuanced setup for ghosts, and we hear that.  A lot of the work on the Advanced Terran Training Manual has gone to making a slew of options for ghosts and their parties: advanced rules for ghosts, specters, and the like; advanced rules for terrazine; advanced rules for groups including military operatives; most psionic specializations; etc.  It is taking a really long time to get it all in there (sorry!).  But keep talking to us about this!  We hear all your feedback, and it all goes into the brain trust and leads to a better ATTM --and game in general -- in the long run.  I hope that when we all have these discussions that it doesn't sound dismissive, all of the ideas we get really do give us perspective in what people want out of the game.  

July 30, 2017 at 2:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

You must login to post.